ID-Legal 07-08-08

From IdCommons

Call Action ITEMS

Next call July 17th Thursday at 10 PDT

Bob: Next Draft of Outline/articulation of project

All: Send Judy relevent contacts you have in this space so we identify gaps

Soctt/Kaliya: Next Draft of Charter

Paddy/Judi: Add some more depth to the existing who list (including adding what we talked about today)

Scott: List of compiling ABA CyberLaw meetings in the fall.

Scott: finding more information on mental civil rights

Paddy: Coming up with ideas on how we make $ to fund this effort

Paddy/Kaliya: Invitation and Promotion strategy

Kaliya with Lucy and Daza: Process development

Some of these should have some attention paid before the next call -

  • phone call to discuss and get initial outline
  • wiki draft of some more information
  • conversation on mailing list

Not talked about but should be on mailing list and next call is potential partner organizations to do this convening

If people are interested in Scenario planning work - ping Kaliya and Judi (more to be posted about this on the list shortly)

Kaliya: Do a pre-call call with Bob to outline agenda of next call.

Call Summary

The conversation got rich at the end diving into the link between

  • Contracts and Protocols and Spac's
  • Code is Law and Law is Code/Protocol

The nature of the legal profession to look back at precident rather then forward in to the future

Using things lawyers know like Fact Patterns in the emerging space to do Mock Trials and Run Moot Court on potential future case.

Lookign at the case landscape - need to do.

'Relevenat Technologies of Tomorrow' was a phrase that came up along with the fact that the form we are choosing is organized loosely enough to enable us to do more. (side comment from Kaliya: Yeah! for the IC form and practices)

During the Fall we should go to some of the Legal Conferences in this area (Scott is getting a list of them togehter) and promote/invite people to our event.

Regional Pre-work small focused topics came up. The Process group will think about this and how it can flow along with online pre-gathering of information and people.

Potential Alternative Language for 'user-centric identity' is "online identity"

Case's that or could be upcoming example:

  • woman sued on fellany charges for false ID use by an adult for bullying child who killed themselves
  • More should be done to find these as prep for the event

We talked about being involved with the ID Futures group more - Kaliya will most more about their activities to mailing list.

Barriers to Entry for the conference - having people who are/want to come write position papers.

Charter Conversation: Process matters - leaning towards the group not itself putting out positions but more creating the space for people to find each other and potentially develop/output such things.

Also include reference to consumer groups and management in companies as part of who should be in conversation. - Kaliya and Scott will take this input and improve.

Additional Who's

  • American legislative exchange council,
  • NCSL,
  • Governors association (NGA).
  • Joe Aladeff
  • NCCUSL – They have taken a pass on state law things.
  • NSF – science and technology and law (Kaliya will inquire more about)
  • ITU framework (the prime Life).
  • EPIC

Scotts notes:

Scott comments that maybe should be more multilateral in terms of views. Not just tech and law, but managers, consumer groups etc.

Jeff H:

Kaliya: In purpose, question of naming events and scenarios. Maybe say that proactive and forward looking, instead of naming what we doing.

Dashel: tighter definitions will be helpful. From a lawyer perspective, difference of those groups that could put together rule, etc. and those that are a safe place. Notes from last call, seems this group is going toward a sharing of ideas, not proposals.

Kaliya – Yes. That is fair.

Dashel: that suggests that good principles. Make it more explicit, so that folks are clear that a safe place.

It is hard, because do have a point of view. We are associated with user centric identity.

Dashel: issue is whether policy will be suggested that contrary to .

Scott: Process to turn the open process into a position might help define outcomes. Divide “safe place” conversations from positions and allow folks to decide whether to put their names on the positions.

Other: Won’t there be a conflict as get specific with the large funders.

Lucy: Tension of recognizing local problem in a global context.

Kaliya: Someone said, when is identity commons going to do something. It is creating space for discussion and this is doing something. Only position is that it is pro-user centric identity.

Jeff H: Use the notion of “online identity.” There are real societal impact to technology. Hadn’t thought further than that. The lawyers that we are aware of, aren’t showing up at IIW.

New topic: Did Bob put together a draft description of the event. If have comments, please add them. Bob is working on them.

New topic: Subject of the today’s call is the Whos

Patrick: Haven’t gotten to that.

Judi: did a quick reorg, but nothing fancy. Nicely organized now.

Kaliya: we should see if have missed any categories. Civil societies like EPIC.

Judi: they publish a annual list.

Dashel: NCCUSL – They have taken a pass on state law things. They are real players. They looking at what law should be.

Kaliya: NSF – science and technology person.

Scott: Non-US folks?

ITU framework (the prime project).

Kaliya: where go look to find the whos in the orgs.

Dasa: Joe Aladeff seems to know folks in this field. Knows who is relevant. Also chambers of commerce, national and international. They look at international law from perspective of private international law.

Kaliya: one issue that have is how do we see going from a list that is broad to one that is narrow.

Judi: Looks for interesting people at conferences, where have identity issues covered. There are a number of folks from there. Folks have published papers, etc. Start with existing conferences.

Kaliya: We don’t have a list of conferences that exist. Are there others that we should point folks to.

Lucy: are we looking for speakers and attendees, or dynamic roundtable on the issues.

Kaliya: more like roundtable, but there will be open space. Cannot imagine an event that is larger

Scott: Blog leading to the conference idea:

Kaliya: we do this already.

Judi: Could call for position papers ahead of time.

Kaliya: That is a good barrier to entry. Get’s folks invested ahead of time.

Daza: can use those points together. If 150 people put in statement. Could have organized blog and then have “town meeting” type discussion. Big might work here. Bubble up issues. Can organize ideas and funnel down to topics of most interest.

Kaliya: need to focus on pre-event idea sharing. That seems to work. Group of folks need to work with Kaliya on event design. How many days, invitations, description of what doing and who is coming.

Kaliya: What about having small regional prework around this. What about this. What are pockets of focus.

Dasel: There are big conferences of lawyers. Could add on to lawyer’s meetings where cyber law and security committee are meeting at the same time. Do a symposium at one of them.

Upcoming cyber law conferences, where are they listed. Can write down and put in e-mail list what they are.

Need to know names and committees to contact them.

Kaliya: Where are lawyers gathering in the fall so that can have folks there to say who we are. Identifying places to be in the fall.

Scott will do the ABA sessions

Back to the WHO – American legislative exchange council, NCSL, Governors association (NGA).

Kaliya – will ping EPIC.

Judy – what need to expand this list. Would be helpful to have people’s contacts. Who do we know who should be invited. Who you are and who to contact. Send out a call for participation. Who should be at the table.

Some sleeve tugging has occurred.

Relevant technologies of tomorrow.

Scott: lawyers look at precedent

Dasel: lawyers good at scenarios. Fact patterns give folks lots to talk about. Mock trials will engage them. This will sharpen attention.

Law is code and code is law. Statutes and laws and tech feed into and from law. The feedback will result in protocols.

Pat Riley: how will we get lawyers to the event, is that what talking about? Lawyers are terrible at business development. If they think can get clients, they will come.

When inviting non lawyers, invite them to give scenarios. Lawyers can address.

Emerging legal risks. High ticket event.

Judi: Future of the Internet[1] paper she did in law school was a scenario paper. This is ripe for a good analogy.

Dasel: scenario would be good to see.

Kaliya: group in ID commons is scenario group. Have a proposal that circulating around. Would be great to get feedback on that. We want to do community wide scenario planning, want to see what need for potential futures. See what has the most potential.

Dasa: Hereby volunteer for health care sector scenarios.

Kaliya: want to have a call regarding process.

Lucy: will help with that.

Dasa: will help with tech. User name: test password

Pat Riley: is there room for promotions and revenue generator. How we make money, revenue: IAW. Other seminars

Scott: should the organization be a 501(c)(3)?

Judi: If anyone wants to be involved in scenario planning, please contact her ( (at) gmail (dot) com). If have anyone that should be in the dialog, please send those to Judi.

Kaliya: not contact them yet. Just names so that recognize the folks involved.

Pat raised the promotion and revenue generation. Anyone else interested in that? No responses.

Bob will do a draft.

Any other volunteers to take on things.

When have next call? Next Thursday, July 17. 10am pacific time.


Kaliya Patrick Reilly Judi Lucy Scott Mary Ruddy Daza Mila?